Topic on User talk:Les

Could you at least keep it and hide it for discussion? Both the novelization and toy stats of Jiger length of 体長 (80 meters) correspond, and toy says 全長 refers to the whole length including tail. Other pages already includes stats of novelization as well.

The commented out text is fine, sure. I'm just weary about stating it is "without tail" if that is not explicitly what's written, and because we don't do that in every other place where a kaiju is given a 体長 stat. As an aside, in the show the military estimates Jiger is 50 to 60 meters in "size" which the English dub approximates to "length." That is obviously smaller than the official 80 meters, so I don't know where they were meant to be measuring from for that estimate.

I understand this is confusing. In Japan, 身長, 体高, 全高, 体長, 全長, all of these are different in nuances while 体長 and 全長 have been confused in Japan, too. In Gamera Rebirth, 体長 corresponds with 身長 in Showa which means the length between nostril and hind legs. Actually the novelization also depicts that during the battle Jiger was said to be 50 meter to 60 meters (p.175). However, the kaiju file in the same book says 80 meters (体長) where this 体長 is stated to be different from the whole length (全長, 180 meters) in the toy.

At least here in Japan, we see that Showa length of Barugon and Jiger and Zigra as the length between nostrils and hind legs, not the whole body lengths including tails.

And Zigra's length in the kaiju file in the novelization is 体長, not 全長 (including tail for Jiger).

I just wrote on Astounding Beyond Belief's talk page. This is very tricky to explain, so if you give me some time, I will create a diagram to show the differences of each words.

I believe I understand the distinction you're getting at. My only apprehension is about whether that distinction is universally understood.

Just poking around in some books we have, I immediately found an example of a contradiction: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II Super Complete Works (1993) says that BabyGodzilla has a 体高 of 1.64 meters and a 体長 of 3.53 meters, while Godzilla Dictionary [New Edition] (2014, originally 2004) says he has a 身長 of 1.64 meters and a 全長 of 3.53 meters. Given that both provide a height stat, which should essentially be identical to a length minus tail, they both seem to intend for the 3.53 meter stat to apply to Baby's full length including the tail. Yet, they use different terms to indicate this.

I also found an interesting example where 体長 is used with or without the tail in the same source. Godzilla Final Wars Super Complete Works (2005) gives Anguirus a 体長 of "180 meters (including tail)" while Keizer Ghidorah is given a 体長 of "150 meters (excluding tail)." My conclusion, then, is that there is not a universally understood separation between 体長 and 全長. The source explicitly mentioning whether or not it includes the tail is an example of the kind of thing I'd reflect on a page. But I don't like assuming whether the tail is included based strictly on the use of 体長.

Also, to keep on topic with Zigra, it seems suspicious to me that there is a 20 meter difference between his 身長 and 体長. If he's 130 meters from his head to his legs while swimming, how does he lose so much height just by standing up? If you're measuring the same thing, head to feet, just with him in a different orientation, shouldn't it be more or less the same number? I find it easier to believe that those 20 meters are from his tail. Hypothetically you'd measure him from head to tail while he's in his swimming pose, but you'd measure from the ground to his head (therefore excluding his tail) while he's standing upright.

Wow, quite interesting, thanks a lot! Would you mind if I take some time to reply? I think this is also an ambiguous topic even in Japan, and I need to gather some materials myself to expand discussions.

For Zigra's case, well, I hope they clarify the actual stats afterward. Official data book is announced to be published, but no details so far including the publishing date.

From my point of view, the 20 meters difference is probably due to the nuances of the word 身長 in Japanese. VERY tricky.

For bipedal characters who stand erect, 身長 means "the height from top of the head to the bottom of the legs". For bipedal characters with forward‐bent postures, 身長 means the length from the top of the head to the bottom of the legs along the body (in this case, 体高 is equal to the 身長 for standing-erect characters). For quadruped characters, 身長 means "the length between the tip of nostril to hind legs, not including tail". And 身長 and 体高 and 全高 are all slightly different as well.

See? Not easy at all. I think I have to create a diagram to explain...