Topic on User talk:Monster Hunter

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Astounding Beyond Belief (talkcontribs)

With the trailer out and the movie beginning its international rollout in less than two months, I figure it's about time to start seriously talking about if we're going to include Monster Hunter on the site. As one of about five people who enjoyed the Resident Evil movies, I'm looking forward to it, but I don't think it's a slam-dunk for inclusion.

Pros: Co-financed and distributed in Japan by Toho. Based on a Japanese video game series.

Cons: This is primarily Sony's film, not Toho's. Not currently being marketed as a kaiju movie (which helped push Rampage over the top; we weren't going to argue with The Rock). No real connection to other media on the site besides Toho's involvement. Presumably will be covered by Monster Hunter Wiki (although they haven't made a page for it yet).

The size question: Greater Rathalos, apparently the largest monster in the film, looks to be about the same length as the AWACS it attacks in the trailer (46.6 meters). But how prominently will it feature?

Gorogera (talkcontribs)

To answer the Rathalos question, I'm pretty sure he will be the main villain.

As for whether the article should be integrated, I'm leaning towards yes. Like you mentioned, Toho had some involvement in the film. Wikipedia lists them as a co-producer, specifically. Also, a Rathalos appeared in a Cool Japan promo with Shin Godzilla. And even if that Toho connection didn't exist, Sony and Tencent (who have both worked on kaiju films) are involved as well. Plus, there are tons of non-Toho, American monster films on here that don't even have those companies. Finally, the monsters (at least Rathalos and Diablos) look just big enough to be proper daikaiju.

SlimerJoel (talkcontribs)

I'm leaning towards no on this one.

I haven't played any Monster Hunter games but from what I can gather, the creatures seem to be akin to big game animals and pests rather than proper kaiju. They are defeated by relatively simple human methods (handheld weaponry) and are natural species rather than abnormal mutations. So they're more in line with something like dinosaurs co-existing with humans in that sense. The issue with including them on the basis of its country of origin and studio involvement would open up the big can of worms with another monster-focused franchise: Pokemon. It's a Japanese video game series, Toho distributes most of the movies in Japan and they feature large monsters as well but I'm not sure they'd fall under what we cover, despite having those aspects in common with Monster Hunter.

With a film like Rampage, there's at least prior source material for it that is overtly referencing kaiju properties in addition to its marketing. There's an obvious kaiju influence with it. But this film doesn't really seem to be aiming for that aspect, even if the Rathalos is on the larger side than it normally is. I think it was just a case of "make it a little bigger so it's more threatening".

So yeah, gonna say we shouldn't include it because it doesn't really fit the bill of what we cover and would open up way too many loopholes for loosely related stuff to be included down the line.

Gorogera (talkcontribs)

In all due respect, I'd say Monster Hunter would fit good enough on Wikizilla. While your argument on the monsters themselves works on the surface, some of the films that currently have Sandboxes/are officially on the wiki have monsters that are both natural and weak to man-wielded weaponry. And even then, the weapons that Hunters use are not just regular weapons. Not only are they oversized but they are elemental at nature. The Dual Blades' Demon Mode, for example, is shown clearly in the film's international trailer.

The Pokemon comparison doesn't hold up either. For one, the Monster Hunter movie's involvement of the real world makes it a little more viable than Pokemon, which has a fabricated world and no involvement with real-life locations. The Pokemon themselves aren't taken seriously while the wyverns and beasts of Monster Hunter are. Also, most Pokemon aren't kaiju. You could say that for the monsters in Monster Hunter as well but that leads into my next point.

Monster Hunter isn't the only film on here that wasn't marketed (or intended) as a kaiju film. For example, Astounding Beyond Belief (OP) made a sandbox for The Host/Gwoemul. Although the titular Gwoemul has a similar origin to Godzilla, it was never advertised as that sort of movie. Same with Jellyfish Eyes and Monsters, both of which have an official page and sandbox respectively.

And even then, Monster Hunter shares a lot of beats with the average kaiju movie. There's military leads, giant monsters with bulletproof skin, destruction of man-made structures by said monsters, and more. Also, Ron Perlman who is in Monster Hunter as the Admiral already has appeared in Pacific Rim, which is on Wikizilla. Plus, there are movies on here that don't even have those criteria nor connections to any major kaiju franchise.

Overall, I'm standing my case. Until further notice, I say that Monster Hunter should stay

Les (talkcontribs)

Personally, I do not have much of a preference either way. There is a decent case to be made for it, given the presence of monsters and Toho's involvement (not only are they an executive producer, but they're providing Japanese theatrical distribution). One thing I will say, though, is that I'm not fond of reverting to the "are the monsters giant" argument in these situations. "Kaiju" does not equal "daikaiju." Pigmon from Ultraman is the size of a human, but nobody would argue he isn't a kaiju. Fairy Mothra, Garu Garu, the Dorats, Barem - those can all be considered kaiju, as "strange beasts." The question of whether they're affected by conventional weaponry need not be a factor either. Godzilla was of course killed by missiles in G98, but even something like Maguma was shot with a single laser and immediately died. Judging whether films deserve to be included on the site based solely on how big or resilient the monsters are is pretty arbitrary, in my opinion.

Monster Hunter is a monster movie with direct involvement from Toho. For all intents and purposes it fits in with what we cover on the site, maybe even better than certain other things we already have. In my mind, it's really just a question of whether we want to put in the work of giving it coverage. ABB brings up a good point that the Monster Hunter franchise already has a wiki where this could be covered. A good portion of the non-Toho or related movies we have were included on the basis that there was nobody else to adequately cover them.

Astounding Beyond Belief (talkcontribs)
Allosaurus (talkcontribs)

I think that this article can be on Wikizilla. Monster Hunter is a giant monster film, distributed by Toho in Japan. Even if there will be a good article on Monster Hunter Wiki, I think that this film can be on Wikizilla. There are King Kong Wiki, Gamera Wiki, Pacific Rim Wiki and even Mega Shark Wiki, but Wikizilla has articles about these films.

Les (talkcontribs)

The Gamera and Kong wikis were absorbed by us years ago, the old sites are now dead. We don't cover Pacific Rim extensively, only pages for the movies. The rest (such as the monsters and characters) link to Pacific Rim Wiki, who is an affiliate of ours.

As for Mega Shark, I'd rather it be covered elsewhere, too :P

Allosaurus (talkcontribs)

How about Rampage Wiki? The have article about film, but Rampage is on Wikizilla.

Astounding Beyond Belief (talkcontribs)

We argued fiercely over including Rampage before The Rock started billing it as a kaiju movie. I don't remember its tiny wiki being a factor though.

To SlimerJoel, I'll point out that we do have a Pokémon page to chronicle its many connections with the kaiju genre (though it could use some work). Pokémon also enjoys an extremely robust wiki in Bulbapedia, it's much easier to cover one Monster Hunter movie than 24 Pokémon movies, and the military elements in Monster Hunter bring it more in line with kaiju eiga.

To Gorogera, I'll admit there's no basis for The Host being on this site other than "it's one of the most critically-acclaimed Asian monster movies ever." Other Korean movies with similarly-sized monsters have never been under serious consideration. Jellyfish Eyes is a clear-cut kaiju movie though, and the Gareth Edwards connection makes Monsters a must. Recurring actors like Ron Perlman, however, shouldn't influence what movies we cover.

To Les, die mad about Mega Shark. :P

The responses to the Monster Hunter thread I started on their wiki were not inspiring. Unfortunately, with COVID-19 cases erupting around the world, it might be a while before any of us can actually watch this movie and render judgment.

Astounding Beyond Belief (talkcontribs)
Astounding Beyond Belief (talkcontribs)

Monster Hunter has moved up another week to December 17. I should be able to see it at my drive-in.

Gorogera (talkcontribs)

I've been trying to post for weeks but couldn't. Now that that's over, I've come to say that in a Total Film magazine issue, the film's monsters were called "colossal kaiju". I'd think that counts as being marketed as a kaiju film.


EDIT: Here's the specific page.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnTk6WmW8AAWIf7?format=jpg&name=large

Astounding Beyond Belief (talkcontribs)

There's a distinction between an article in a magazine and the actual marketing campaign.

Gorogera (talkcontribs)

There's also a distinction between a social media post and a marketing campaign.

Astounding Beyond Belief (talkcontribs)

If you're referring to Dwayne Johnson hyping Rampage on his Instagram, there really isn't. (If you're not, you lost me.)

Astounding Beyond Belief (talkcontribs)

I've now seen Monster Hunter and it now has my full support for inclusion on the site. We probably should've signed off on it before the movie came out because of Toho's involvement, but the climax with the Greater Ratholos taking on the military, which is much more extensive than the trailers show, left no doubt. (Also, the Monster Hunter wiki still isn't covering it.)

VaderRaptor (talkcontribs)

Okay then.