User talk:OOM-9/Sandbox/Troll (2022)

I watched Troll this morning and do not think it qualifies under our Scope policy. The only rule that could conceivably fit it is Miscellaneous rule 1 ("Include a giant monster and demonstrate significant influence from or on the Godzilla, King Kong, and/or Gamera series, beyond the mere presence of a giant monster"). But while the film piles on the usual tropes and plot beats from the giant monster genre, there's nothing that feels specific to Godzilla or King Kong.

I think this scope is too limiting. It's clearly a Kaiju movie, it doesn't need to be literally connected to the Godzilla or King Kong series. Cloverfield isn't. Besides, it would be a good addition considering we have no Norway movies.

Being connected to Godzilla or King Kong is the entire point. We are not a wiki for every monster movie ever made.

Then let's remove Cloverfield, that movie has nothing to do with the franchise.

Cloverfield has been stated several times before to be considered related enough by the admins, easy enough to cover, and unlike troll, there are numerous interviews and panels from the director of Cloverfield that state direct influences from the Godzilla series. First one that comes to my mind is when the director talked about his time in Japan and how the amount of Godzilla he saw there shocked him and how he wanted to create a monster like that for America. Granted I'm paraphrasing off of memory but you get the point.

That's pretty much it. (And like the original Godzilla, it echoes recent attacks on its country of origin.)

It may surprise you, Rodyra, but we've actually given some thought to this!

that passive aggression is a bit uncalled for

and that's coming from myself whos knows all about it.

You are well aware how long the scope rules took to write - I don't have much patience with someone who bashes them without bothering to try and understand them.

Im a bit rusty on my Godzilla and Kong film memory but Many Reviews seem to Disagree, Reviews i read compare it to the MonsterVerse and even G98

Netflix itself describes it as "The norwegian folklore of Ragnarok meets Godzilla" and the film itself clearly nods to King Kong and Godzilla namedroping both which seems to indicate that Roar has clearly seen these movies and seems a bit on the nose.

One shot appears almost identical to one in Kong Skull Island, And i could argue the helicopter scene as a whole is similar to Skull Islands and maybe the Nightime forest military encounter being similar to the Nightime Scene in Skull Island as well.

Maybe the Shot of the guy getting ate by the troll could be similar to the shot of the guy falling into kongs mouth?(idk)

i could alsk maybe argue the dad character being similar to Bryan Cranstons character in G14

The car chase feels a little similar to G98 as well as the characters going into a footprint of the titular creature

but that might be a stretch

the lack of any insight or guidance from the Director (or Netflix) on what other movies may have inspired the film and or behind the scenes on the film itself isnt helpful to go off the film on its own.

and i feel this should wait if we get interviews or behind the scenes If they surface or just any form of insight (do netflix films even do that ? also (or alternatively somehow directly ask him about his influnces?)

And i might as well ask what got Snow Monster Approved even did anyone on the site even watch it?

And what exactly does it even mean to be influnced by Godzilla or Kong?

Is it copy and pasted plot ideas Or similar designs?

Camera shots?

The creator saying it was?

The only other person on the site besides myself whos seen it is kaiju no. 14 and id like to see if he has anything to add.

Ultimately i feel at the very least i feel its worth a mention on Netflixs selected filmography.

Comparisons to other well-known giant monster movies are inevitable in reviews regardless of specific content, and moments like "helicopters flying around a monster", "a monster eats someone", and "a monster chases a car" are just not specific enough to the Godzilla and King Kong series. The film namedropping Godzilla and King Kong isn't significant either, given their fame; I would say those are just reminders that giant monsters are regarded as the stuff of fiction in this world. I think the contrast between Troll and the films we've approved under Miscellaneous rule 1 (including Snow Monster) is sharp. Many of them follow the plot of King Kong closely (or inspired it, in the case of The Lost World); Gorgo effectively fuses the plots of King Kong and Godzilla; Toho sued Voltage for allegedly trying to make an unlicensed Godzilla movie in Colossal; and so on.

But what does it mean if one of the actual companies behind it compare it to Godzilla which is what Netflix did?

The cinematography of a humanoid monster clenching its fist at the sight of oncoming Helicopters seems very specific to Kong Skull Island though

I dont recall any other film doing that, i even provided side by side images to compare both shots yet i feel you kinda ignored it.

My point of the lack of any insight or guidance from the Director and or Netflix itself on what films could of influnced the film still stands.

Further information from him or any other source would be required.

"X meets Y" comparisons are too basic to factor into decisions like this. Godzilla is a famous giant monster, so such comparisons for giant monster stories will name him a lot, regardless of whether the story resembles Godzilla films more than superficially.

I don't think the helicopter scenes in Troll and Kong: Skull Island have much in common. In Troll the military is executing an unusual strategy against the monster on their home turf rather than the monster ambushing them on his; the battle also takes place on a cloudy day rather than at sunset, giving it a different look. The shots you posted are indeed similar, but one shot isn't nearly enough.

Regarding interviews, the director said yesterday, "It was inspired by Norwegian folklore and fairytales and I always wondered what would happen if one of the creatures from those fairytales would wake up today. How would the government and the army and everybody react? So that was kind of the basis of the idea."

Its entirely possible to be influnced by multiple sources simultaneously (Kong Skull Island shows that you can be with JVR citing multiple influnces)

But i dont think we will ever know unless we can directly contact the director and straight up ask if any Kong/Godzilla films played as another influnce

If Trollhunter is considered out of scope, Troll would have to be as well.

The monster being a Troll has nothing to do with it not being added.

Trollhunter's ultimately a Cloverfield inspired giant monster movie with trolls playing around with troll story conventions just as Troll is a Monsterverse inspired take on troll stories that debatably could have pulled from Trollhunter just from someone going "But what if someone made an entire movie about that Mountain King class troll?" and there's certainly a habit of lumping creatures from different series and studios together when it comes to Japanese folklore creatures or even dinosaurs. It just seems like a matter of "How much do we want to stretch the chains of monster movie lineage?"

The rules are not written to allow movies inspired by Cloverfield. Only Godzilla, Gamera, and King Kong.

The argument for Troll was that it was inspired by Godzilla and/or Kong, but we didn't feel there was a significant enough connection.

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In my humble opinion, this has been overblown beyond the original point. Les and Astounding have said no to Troll and given good reasons as to why. No need to add or remove any other films because of the discussion around this one.

It has nothing to do here. Template "Delete" I added was removed 2 times.

It's very much a giant monster film. The teaser image even shows a skyscraper-sized troll.

It seems you haven't read numerous discussions between me and administrators. In nutshell: if it is a giant monster film, but with no real relation, it can't be here.

With no real relation to what?

To Godzilla, Kong, Gamera and Japanese giant monsters. Example: Pacific Rim is related (made in the same style), The Meg isn't (no real relation), Jurassic Park isn't (not enough giant monsters).

Hello, I saw your Template deletes, at the time I wiped them out when I was revising my sandbox. I thought they were automatic tags and nothing more

As to whether Troll belongs on the Wiki I was operating under the same logic of why Rampage (2018) is on the wiki. The Troll (2022) concept art that has been released shows the Troll as gigantic and taking inspiration from the Kaiju genre

The Ants from THEM (1954) are given a page on the wiki as well

https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3656125/godzilla-sized-troll-teased-promo-image-tomb-raider-directors-netflix-monster-movie/

Here is an article with the concept art

Too early to say whether this belongs on the wiki or not. It can stay a sandbox for now.

@OOM-9: I understand, why you are trying to add it, but I think it's the same situation as with The Meg. They are really giant, but I really don't see the real inspiration from kaiju. Also Them! isn't allowed here.

"Think" being the operative word, since our knowledge of this movie basically consists of one piece of concept art.

Them! had an old sandbox page; I'll delete that now.

Well, I can say "know", because a giant troll? That's not in the same genre.

Why would a giant troll be exempt from being in the genre just because its a giant troll? The genre has seen Ogres, Kappa, and other such monsters. We have concept art of a giant towering troll peering over buildings. I think it does look to have at least the bare minium to meet the metrics of a giant monster movie, because where Meg is just a giant shark, the Troll is a humanoid city destroying monster

But I do definitely understand the hesitation

We have american giant monster film we have not even talked about Norwegian films yet.

If troll isn't allowed on the site feel free to make an article on Al's giant monster site.